How do you hold your pen?

[Aaron W. Hsu]

So, in the spirit of getting more discussion going here, I thought I
would pose a little question that I always ask when meeting a fellow pen
enthusiast in person: How do you hold your pen?

For myself, I have a long history of pen grip introspection, so it is
okay if you don't actively think about your grip as much as I do, but it
would be interesting to see if you hold it in some particular way, or if
it really does not matter. Perhaps the hold you have came from your
first grade teacher or some such?

For myself, I had a pretty standard Palmer style grip when I first
started learning way back when I was younger, but during ages 10-14, I
actually was grip neutral. I was big into mimicking other handwriting
styles of my classmates, so I would instead use the grip they used when
they were writing, to mimick their hand as much as possible. Later, when
I finally settled on Spencerian as my handwriting of choice, I used the
grip usually associated with it, which also requires a certain posture.

For this hold, I usually, hold the pen something like the top part of a
chopstick is held if you are doing it "right." I have the thumb opposite
the main index finger, and the middle finger is resting around the top
knuckle joint (closest to the tip) somewhere. I curl the third and
fourth fingers underneath to form the stabilizing contact with my
writing surface, and I try to avoid letting my wrist rest on the table.

How's about you all? How do you do it?

[a***@bulker.com]

Post by Aaron W. Hsu
So, in the spirit of getting more discussion going here, I thought I
would pose a little question that I always ask when meeting a fellow pen
enthusiast in person: How do you hold your pen?
For myself, I have a long history of pen grip introspection, so it is
okay if you don't actively think about your grip as much as I do, but it
would be interesting to see if you hold it in some particular way, or if
it really does not matter. Perhaps the hold you have came from your
first grade teacher or some such?
For myself, I had a pretty standard Palmer style grip when I first
started learning way back when I was younger, but during ages 10-14, I
actually was grip neutral. I was big into mimicking other handwriting
styles of my classmates, so I would instead use the grip they used when
they were writing, to mimick their hand as much as possible. Later, when
I finally settled on Spencerian as my handwriting of choice, I used the
grip usually associated with it, which also requires a certain posture.
For this hold, I usually, hold the pen something like the top part of a
chopstick is held if you are doing it "right." I have the thumb opposite
the main index finger, and the middle finger is resting around the top
knuckle joint (closest to the tip) somewhere. I curl the third and
fourth fingers underneath to form the stabilizing contact with my
writing surface, and I try to avoid letting my wrist rest on the table.
How's about you all? How do you do it?

Fascinating. But you don't say whether you have the nib end pointing
up or down.

[Aaron W. Hsu]

Post by a***@bulker.com
Fascinating. But you don't say whether you have the nib end pointing
up or down.

I had to cut off the description somewhere. ;-)

[krishnananda]

Post by Aaron W. Hsu
So, in the spirit of getting more discussion going here, I thought I
would pose a little question that I always ask when meeting a fellow pen
enthusiast in person: How do you hold your pen?
For myself, I have a long history of pen grip introspection, so it is
okay if you don't actively think about your grip as much as I do, but it
would be interesting to see if you hold it in some particular way, or if
it really does not matter. Perhaps the hold you have came from your
first grade teacher or some such?
For myself, I had a pretty standard Palmer style grip when I first
started learning way back when I was younger, but during ages 10-14, I
actually was grip neutral. I was big into mimicking other handwriting
styles of my classmates, so I would instead use the grip they used when
they were writing, to mimick their hand as much as possible. Later, when
I finally settled on Spencerian as my handwriting of choice, I used the
grip usually associated with it, which also requires a certain posture.
For this hold, I usually, hold the pen something like the top part of a
chopstick is held if you are doing it "right." I have the thumb opposite
the main index finger, and the middle finger is resting around the top
knuckle joint (closest to the tip) somewhere. I curl the third and
fourth fingers underneath to form the stabilizing contact with my
writing surface, and I try to avoid letting my wrist rest on the table.
How's about you all? How do you do it?

Looking at the permanent ink stain on the callous on my right middle
finger, it seems that I hold pens between the index and middle finger
first knuckles, with the barrel resting on the webbing between my thumb
and forefinger. My thumb is there mostly as a damper as most movement is
in the fingers.

I should add that I have a pretty bad tremor in both my hands which gets
worst the harder I try to do something (a "Benign Volitional Tremor" I
inherited from my mother), so the rather loose grip helps somewhat. I'm
also dyslexic and incapable of writing legibly. Even I can't read my own
handwriting much of the time. The only pen I hold differently is the
Omas 360 which forces you into a specific grip.

[Aaron W. Hsu]

Post by krishnananda
I should add that I have a pretty bad tremor in both my hands which gets
worst the harder I try to do something (a "Benign Volitional Tremor" I
inherited from my mother), so the rather loose grip helps somewhat. I'm
also dyslexic and incapable of writing legibly. Even I can't read my own
handwriting much of the time. The only pen I hold differently is the
Omas 360 which forces you into a specific grip.

Do you find that your hand becomes more or less steady over time spent
writing during a single session? I notice that I have to "warm up" to
write well. When I first attempt to write during the day, my strokes
tend to be uncoordinated, but as I continue to write, they get better
and more controlled. This was opposite of what I expected, since I
thought my hands would become less coordinated after I grew more tired.

[Recife]

When recommending a particular pen to somebody, I always ask their
weight balance preference and if they are right handed or left handed.
Most right handed people prefer a weight balance either in the middle
or towards the butt of the pen. They generally like to cap pens when
writing. Left handed people prefer more weight towards the nib about
60% of the time. They generally don't cap the pen when using it.
Length, diameter and overall weight of the pen are also a factor. I
wonder how this compares with your experience.
Pierre

Post by Aaron W. Hsu
Do you find that your hand becomes more or less steady over time spent
writing during a single session? I notice that I have to "warm up" to
write well. When I first attempt to write during the day, my strokes
tend to be uncoordinated, but as I continue to write, they get better
and more controlled. This was opposite of what I expected, since I
thought my hands would become less coordinated after I grew more tired.
--

[JimL]

Are penmanship and how to hold the pen even taught in schools these
days? I was taught the gri that I think is the spencerian, above. --
between thumb and forefinger,lightly resting on middle finger, topof
pencil along index finger,not thumb. And, write with your arm,no
wrist. One can write for hours and not get tired.

I now work in a university. I am amazed, and shudder, to observe
most students, and faculty, in this tight fist method; thumb over
three fingers, with the pen somewhere inside there, writing cramped
with wrist movement. Sometimes the head is actually resting sideways
on the desk, or other arm, with the nose three inches from the pen.
It hurts just to watch.

[Aaron W. Hsu]

Post by JimL
Are penmanship and how to hold the pen even taught in schools these
days? I was taught the gri that I think is the spencerian, above. --
between thumb and forefinger,lightly resting on middle finger, topof
pencil along index finger,not thumb. And, write with your arm,no
wrist. One can write for hours and not get tired.

I believe this was the classic grip taught with variations during both
the Spencerian and Palmer stages of the U.S. education history. And,
yes, this is a better method of writing IMO. The lack of wrist movement
is rather important, though whether you move your fingers or not depends
on the textbook.

Post by JimL
I now work in a university. I am amazed, and shudder, to observe
most students, and faculty, in this tight fist method; thumb over
three fingers, with the pen somewhere inside there, writing cramped
with wrist movement. Sometimes the head is actually resting sideways
on the desk, or other arm, with the nose three inches from the pen.
It hurts just to watch.

I think that very few are encouraged to write properly or neatly. I know
that I have a tendency to lean when I write, but this is a habit I
actively try to fix. I think that it has something to do with my eyes,
but nonetheless, it causes problems when you write.

These are just bad habits that people get when they are not told the
"right" way to do it.

[Aaron W. Hsu]

Post by Recife
When recommending a particular pen to somebody, I always ask their
weight balance preference and if they are right handed or left handed.
Most right handed people prefer a weight balance either in the middle
or towards the butt of the pen. They generally like to cap pens when
writing. Left handed people prefer more weight towards the nib about
60% of the time. They generally don't cap the pen when using it.
Length, diameter and overall weight of the pen are also a factor. I
wonder how this compares with your experience.

I have not paid that much attention to others, but I find that I do not
like most of the weight in the butt of the pen; I rather prefer the nib
to contain most of the weight. I am right handed, and I prefer a smaller
barrel, since I don't put the pen at the webbing between my thumb and
forefinger, but above the largest knuckle of my forefinger.

Most of this comes as a result of my using a dip pen hold on the pen,
which works best with these weight balances and such. Since I use dip
pens for my correspondence, that may have something to do with it. ;-)

[Jimmy]

Post by Aaron W. Hsu
So, in the spirit of getting more discussion going here, I thought I
would pose a little question that I always ask when meeting a fellow pen
enthusiast in person: How do you hold your pen?
For myself, I have a long history of pen grip introspection, so it is
okay if you don't actively think about your grip as much as I do, but it
would be interesting to see if you hold it in some particular way, or if
it really does not matter. Perhaps the hold you have came from your
first grade teacher or some such?
For myself, I had a pretty standard Palmer style grip when I first
started learning way back when I was younger, but during ages 10-14, I
actually was grip neutral. I was big into mimicking other handwriting
styles of my classmates, so I would instead use the grip they used when
they were writing, to mimick their hand as much as possible. Later, when
I finally settled on Spencerian as my handwriting of choice, I used the
grip usually associated with it, which also requires a certain
posture.
For this hold, I usually, hold the pen something like the top part of a
chopstick is held if you are doing it "right." I have the thumb opposite
the main index finger, and the middle finger is resting around the top
knuckle joint (closest to the tip) somewhere. I curl the third and
fourth fingers underneath to form the stabilizing contact with my
writing surface, and I try to avoid letting my wrist rest on the table.
How's about you all? How do you do it?

Interesting question; I had to write something, and look.

I grip the pen by bracing it between the tip of my index finger and the
last joint of my middle finger. My thumb, almost on top, locks it into
place without any pressure. The tail of the pen rests against the index
finger, between the knuckle and first joint. The pen tilts at 35 or 40
degrees to the paper.

There's not a lot of wrist movement (a good thing?), and no arm movement
(bad?). It's mostly finger and thumb movement, I think. Ring and little
finger curl up, and help to anchor my hand, relative to the paper. This
probably sounds less than perfect; with a fountain pen, it is
comfortable, and sustainable too.

Anything with much resistance, like a tough ballpoint, tires me out, and
I do get on better with small, light pens.

--
Alan

[bowcan]

Post by Aaron W. Hsu
So, in the spirit of getting more discussion going here, I thought I
would pose a little question that I always ask when meeting a fellow pen
enthusiast in person: How do you hold your pen?

For myself, I have a long history of pen grip introspection, so it is

Post by Aaron W. Hsu
okay if you don't actively think about your grip as much as I do, but it
would be interesting to see if you hold it in some particular way, or if
it really does not matter. Perhaps the hold you have came from your
first grade teacher or some such?
For myself, I had a pretty standard Palmer style grip when I first
started learning way back when I was younger, but during ages 10-14, I
actually was grip neutral. I was big into mimicking other handwriting
styles of my classmates, so I would instead use the grip they used when
they were writing, to mimick their hand as much as possible. Later, when
I finally settled on Spencerian as my handwriting of choice, I used the
grip usually associated with it, which also requires a certain posture.
For this hold, I usually, hold the pen something like the top part of a
chopstick is held if you are doing it "right." I have the thumb opposite
the main index finger, and the middle finger is resting around the top
knuckle joint (closest to the tip) somewhere. I curl the third and
fourth fingers underneath to form the stabilizing contact with my
writing surface, and I try to avoid letting my wrist rest on the table.
How's about you all? How do you do it?
--

<snip sig for brevity>

Nice topic. Hope reply doesn't get too long!
Ah! Memories.

Remember teacher was very strict & we weren't allowed to make letters at
first-just drawing circles (counter-clockwise & clock-wise) along with up &
down lines like an 'EKG.'

Our teacher would prowl the aisles as she reminded us, "Put your arm on the
table! Use your other hand to move the paper! Sit up! Don't move your pencil
hand! Use the other hand to move the paper!"

Of course we didn't like our teacher, but in hindsight she probably did us a
great favor. Whether she was teaching Palmer, or Chambers, or whatever-- I
don't know. But I think all those drills *did* force us to use our
shoulders more. I think our hands were meant to act as a sort of 'platform'
for the pencil while other muscles & other hand did the work.

Penmanship is still something I'm working on as I learn to write, "flex."
Never did master the art of using other hand to move the paper-still move my
hand & then have to reposition. Perhaps as a result, my writing tends to
slant down and to the right when writing on paper without lines.

As for grip-maybe like you described. Hand rests on paper-- fleshy part
opposite thumb-side. Pinkie & ring finger are kind of curled under. Pen
rests lightly on last part of middle finger. Thumb & part of index finger
rest lightly on top of pen. I hold pen at about 30-degree angle towards the
rear of 'grip' section.

For me this is easier and I count myself lucky. I can fill out a tremendous
amount of paperwork associated with mental health care (intake forms,
progress notes, treatment plans, etc.) while others complain their hands
hurt! (We all got into social work and counseling to fill charts & forms!)

Was surprised to read on an html board that some people refuse to believe it's
possible to 'write from the shoulder'. Maybe it's something you have to
learn as a kid. Don't know. I 'cheat' & use fingers for stuff like drawings
or flourishes, but for basic shapes & letters I do think most of the work is
being done by muscles in upper arm/shoulder.

fwiw

--Bruce

[Bluesea]

Post by bowcan

Post by Aaron W. Hsu
For this hold, I usually, hold the pen something like the top part of a
chopstick is held if you are doing it "right." I have the thumb opposite
the main index finger, and the middle finger is resting around the top
knuckle joint (closest to the tip) somewhere. I curl the third and
fourth fingers underneath to form the stabilizing contact with my
writing surface, and I try to avoid letting my wrist rest on the table.

Remember teacher was very strict & we weren't allowed to make letters at
first-just drawing circles (counter-clockwise & clock-wise) along with up
& down lines like an 'EKG.'
Our teacher would prowl the aisles as she reminded us, "Put your arm on
the table! Use your other hand to move the paper! Sit up! Don't move your
pencil hand! Use the other hand to move the paper!"
Of course we didn't like our teacher, but in hindsight she probably did us
a great favor. Whether she was teaching Palmer, or Chambers, or whatever--
I don't know. But I think all those drills *did* force us to use our
shoulders more. I think our hands were meant to act as a sort of
'platform' for the pencil while other muscles & other hand did the work.
Penmanship is still something I'm working on as I learn to write, "flex."
Never did master the art of using other hand to move the paper-still move
my hand & then have to reposition. Perhaps as a result, my writing tends
to slant down and to the right when writing on paper without lines.
As for grip-maybe like you described. Hand rests on paper-- fleshy part
opposite thumb-side. Pinkie & ring finger are kind of curled under. Pen
rests lightly on last part of middle finger. Thumb & part of index finger
rest lightly on top of pen. I hold pen at about 30-degree angle towards
the rear of 'grip' section.
For me this is easier and I count myself lucky. I can fill out a
tremendous amount of paperwork associated with mental health care (intake
forms, progress notes, treatment plans, etc.) while others complain their
hands hurt! (We all got into social work and counseling to fill charts &
forms!)
Was surprised to read on an html board that some people refuse to believe
it's possible to 'write from the shoulder'. Maybe it's something you have
to learn as a kid. Don't know. I 'cheat' & use fingers for stuff like
drawings or flourishes, but for basic shapes & letters I do think most of
the work is being done by muscles in upper arm/shoulder.
fwiw

This is interesting. I think I was taught to hold the pen properly, but from
what this website says, I was taught to be a finger-writer, not to write
using my shoulder and forearm as you do:

http://www.paperpenalia.com/handwriting.

As for my grip, I hold my pen or pencil almost like Figure 3. The exception
is that my pen doesn't rest on the knuckle, but in front of it.

Good topic.

[Aaron W. Hsu]

Post by Bluesea
This is interesting. I think I was taught to hold the pen properly, but from
what this website says, I was taught to be a finger-writer, not to write

Most people tend to be finger writers these days, and with some of the
more modern styles of penmanship, this isn't such a bad thing, though I
still think you get less endurance.

Post by Bluesea
http://www.paperpenalia.com/handwriting.
As for my grip, I hold my pen or pencil almost like Figure 3. The exception
is that my pen doesn't rest on the knuckle, but in front of it.

Yes, that's what most of the more disciplined books I have read say,
at least going back to the Spencerian and Palmer days, I believe. I
know that I sometimes see older folks who have some discipline in writing
do this naturally without thinking about it any longer, whereas it is
nearly impossible for a youngster to write this way without effort.

[Bluesea]

Post by Aaron W. Hsu

Post by Bluesea
This is interesting. I think I was taught to hold the pen properly, but from
what this website says, I was taught to be a finger-writer, not to write

Most people tend to be finger writers these days, and with some of the
more modern styles of penmanship, this isn't such a bad thing, though I
still think you get less endurance.

Since posting, I've been trying to write using my arm instead of my fingers
and, yes, finger-writing is more tiring. The problem with arm-writing is
that it's sloppy although I expect that to lessen with more practice.

I wonder if the finger-writing came about with the advent of bps and needing
more pressure to fill in those small blanks on forms in triplicate.

[Aaron W. Hsu]

Post by Bluesea
Since posting, I've been trying to write using my arm instead of my fingers
and, yes, finger-writing is more tiring. The problem with arm-writing is
that it's sloppy although I expect that to lessen with more practice.

Yes, it gets a lot better with practice, and eventually, I think it gives
a much more consistent feel to ones writing, especially over long periods.

Post by Bluesea
I wonder if the finger-writing came about with the advent of bps and needing
more pressure to fill in those small blanks on forms in triplicate.

I'm not sure about that, but it's a decent theory. I tend to think that
it gets started with bad habits that develop in young children, without
teachers or parents willing to train them otherwise. On the other hand,
with some of the modern scripts, finger writing tends to be more natural
to start with, especially small italic type stuff and block printing
that might be needed on forms.